Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ?
Embracing Autism/Mental Health Worldwide
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition affecting millions worldwide, characterized by challenges in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Despite increasing recognition, there remains a lack of understanding and awareness about the condition.
Mental health encompasses a range of conditions impacting emotional, psychological, and social well-being, affecting millions globally.
It includes disorders like anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and psychosis.
Schizophrenia is marked by symptoms such as hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized thinking, while psychosis involves a loss of contact with reality, often presenting with similar symptoms.
Despite growing awareness, stigma and misconceptions about mental health, particularly schizophrenia and psychosis, persist, underscoring the need for greater understanding and support.
From celebrating neurodiversity to breaking down stigma, we create a safe space for listeners to learn, grow, and feel seen.
Whether you're on the spectrum, a caregiver, or an advocate, join our global community for inspiring conversations and empowering resources that uplift and unite.
Tune in to embrace understanding, healing, and hope worldwide!
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with Autism and Mental Illness.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ?
Laura Craciun: A Son's Mental Illness and a System That Failed Him
Laura Craciun shares her son's harrowing journey with serious mental illness and the systemic failures that criminalize mental health conditions instead of treating them.
Her story highlights the urgent need for better policies to support individuals with psychosis and their families.
• Laura's son was misdiagnosed with ADHD before eventually being diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder at age 20
• Cannabis use potentially triggered or worsened his psychotic symptoms
• Despite 16 attempts to get help through ERs and police, the family faced constant rejection from healthcare facilities
• Anosognosia (lack of illness awareness) prevented her son from voluntarily seeking treatment
• After a violent episode, her son entered the justice system rather than receiving appropriate psychiatric care
• Their state's mental health department only offers services to those who volunteer, excluding those with anosognosia
• The legal system spent resources on 72 court hearings rather than on treatment
• Laura advocates for Assisted Outpatient Treatment laws to bridge the gap between legal and medical systems
• Better education is needed for judges, lawyers, and medical professionals about serious mental illness
We ask that you tell everyone everywhere about Why Not Me? The World, the conversations we're having, and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me? The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me? The World Humanity Over Handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event. Joining us today is Laura Krachun. She's a passionate mental health advocate, collaborating with organizations like the National Shattering Silence Coalition. Today, she's here to share her son's journey with serious mental illness, offering valuable insights to support others that may be facing similar challenges. We will also discuss assisted outpatient treatment laws and the rising issue of cannabis-induced psychosis among teens and young adults. She has a wealth of information and we're pleased to have her here to share her story with us. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:I'm very honored.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's my pleasure. Now I understand that you're part of a charity that supports mental illness, Can you? I understand that you're part of a charity that supports mental illness. Can you expand on that?
Speaker 2:I found National Shattering Silence Coalition after my son, who has schizoaffective disorder, attempted to kill his own father. The police had reached out to me afterwards and said you really should get some support for your family going and join a NAMI chapter. The NAMI chapter put me in touch with National Shattering Silence and ever since then I felt like the most support I've ever had with my son's illness, which he's been battling since 17 years old and now he's 23. So it was as if I had a partnership. So National Shattering Silence Coalition is made up of peers, family members, medical, legal law professionals, concerned citizens that are all to do with serious mental illness, specifically the ones that are the most challenging cases with psychosis like schizophrenia, schizoaffective, bipolar with psychotic features and drug-induced psychosis.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when your son first started having some of the issues that he was facing, how did you handle it? I mean, when people first encounter psychosis or anything along that line, it's the big unknown. They don't know what to do. They don't know what to expect. It's just a very scary time for them. So, with all this going on, how did you handle it?
Speaker 2:I had some experience in this because I myself suffer with bipolar since the age of 17.
Speaker 2:So I've been medicated from age 30 when I was diagnosed after my two sons were born, and have stayed on medications gratefully, because I know how much they work.
Speaker 2:When my sons were born, I was watching out to see if they may show symptoms and signs. Despite my fear that my younger son had bipolar, every neurologist and psychiatrist and therapist and school professional kept saying no, it was just ADHD. He suffered, unfortunately even in the school systems, with ADHD being misdiagnosed as that disorder instead of bipolar, and so by the time he reached senior year he was already acting so bizarrely that we had the suspicions confirmed and he had to be forced into a hospitalization during the middle of his senior year in high school. So I was dealing with how to handle his illness when it came about in a stronger way at age 20, with less experience, because his bipolar also included psychotic features and I never had those. My family wasn't familiar with it either. He had been smoking marijuana, and they say that marijuana induces mania and psychosis to such a degree that it could actually instigate a stronger form of the illness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have heard that from a couple of different sources. So he was 20 when this first started. So what happened? From there, he was starting to have some symptoms. So what happened that led you to get more information, to try and get more diagnosis of what was going on, so you could get this under control.
Speaker 2:Well, I got a phone call from a friend's parent, a father, and he was concerned for my son. He said I think he's sick, I think he's not well just like my own family member and I can't find him. He's missing. He used to be staying with us and that's when I made a call out to my friends and community to help me find him. He had disappeared with no word to his friends or anyone where he was, and a search and rescue went on and dogs and all kinds of police investigation and interviews happened, and for three months we were certain we'd lost him forever.
Speaker 2:When he came back, I would normally think that you'd be relieved, but I actually began the bigger nightmare when he came back, because he was so different looking and acting than anything I'd been familiar with him before. So I think the summer of July 2022, he was in and out of psychosis, which is a strange behavior that can drift in and out without any warning. So it's very disconcerting and it was shocking. So we had a difficult time getting a grasp on how to handle it and we tried our emergency services and behavioral health lines and crisis lines. Nobody seemed to help us really get him the treatment he needed. In fact, a hospital turned us away when we brought him to the ER because they said well, you know he can be crazy, but if he's not a harm to himself or others, then we can't keep him here.
Speaker 1:But if he's not a harm to himself or others, then we can't keep him here. Yes, I've heard that from many others, that if there's not an immediate danger to him or others that they turn away. So what was your next step? I mean, he may not be harm to himself or others at that point in time, but over a period of time it could be a day or an hour or a week it could develop. So what did you do to try and get it more under control so that he could move forward?
Speaker 2:Well, we attempted 16 times with police and ERs. Then at one point the police had to come to the house. There were eight EMT professionals that were called in because he kept pointing at everyone, saying you know, look at me, look at me. Because he believed he could control you with his eyes and he was saying things like I'm faster than a speeding bullet and he was acting psychotic. So they put him in a four-point restraint and took him to the hospital.
Speaker 1:What happened next?
Speaker 2:They put him in a four-point restraint and took him to the hospital. What happened next? The physician took us in a room and said if Nick smokes marijuana one more time, he could have treatment-resistant bipolar with psychotic features. This was the first we'd ever heard that and that's when we were finally going to get the help we needed. And they put him in a forced hospitalization for a month in Worcester and let him go with just a bottle of pills saying you know, take this medicine.
Speaker 2:When he came out he was still psychotic.
Speaker 2:He did not believe he was mentally ill and he wasn't better.
Speaker 2:In fact, he was quite angry, from just acting crazy to holding a knife when it was being used to chop some chicken on the blade end in order to get his father's attention and his father was very scared and then he would went up to his face, said three times do you want to die?
Speaker 2:So that was another hospitalization, and this time at a very reputable probably the best in the country McLean Hospital. When they saw that he was unwilling and unable to know that he has a mental illness and that he needs medical treatment, despite his protest, they took him to court and had us testify for two hours at a trial and they actually did determine that he needs six months of forced hospitalization and forced medicine, but they only kept him for two months and again let him go without any follow-up care. We need assisted outpatient treatment in Massachusetts and if McLean had that option, we would have prevented what happened 10 months later, which was the biggest disaster in his young life and in our family's history, where he tried to kill his own father, so that all could have been prevented.
Speaker 1:So, with all this happening, how was he surviving? How was he getting by day to day with all these thoughts going through his head, because evidently he was still in psychosis? How did he get from point A to point B 10 months later without some sort of intervention to help him?
Speaker 2:I think there was a gang in Boston that he happened to be associated with externally, you know through high school friends, and they sort of took him in and housed him and gave him a place to stay and they got him into some serious trouble, I think because Nick got more and more charges against him. He kept getting in trouble with the law. But he had a place to stay, he wasn't homeless anymore. Nick had to be homeless after he came home from being missing three months because we were now afraid of him for our own physical safety. So the homeless shelters did house him for periods of time until they would kick him out. He was kicked out twice from a homeless shelter. First once because he was speaking crazy, like he was saying he was the creator, he was the universe. The second time was because he had a knife. So he was literally at the will of whoever would take him in.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you just brought up the fact that he thought he was the creator. Can you explain anosognosia and what that is, so that the listener can get a better grasp for understanding this whole process that he's going through?
Speaker 2:Well, you can have psychosis and the symptom of anosognosia when you have these illnesses brought on, possibly from marijuana or from a genetic illness in your family history. I'll do it through a story. Nick and I went for a walk on the beach when he came back from being missing three months, and I'll never forget the moment he turned to me. He's like you know, I can hear and see aliens. And I said, oh, I tried to sound normal and he said, yeah, all I have to do is turn my head without my brain telling me to. And I could see and hear the alien in the passenger seat in the car.
Speaker 2:I was living in Cape Cod in the winter. It didn't have a window. I was trying to act normal and then, you know, he was saying things that I'd never heard him say before, with total conviction. When I tried to say to him you know, maybe you need some help, he was looking at me like I was crazy that there was something wrong with me. So when you see it and you hear it for the first time, you'll never forget it, and most people go a lifetime never face to face with something like this, especially with someone you know. So it was very scary.
Speaker 1:So when that happened, what was your next step? You knew he needed help. So when that happened, what was your next step? You knew he needed help, so what was your next step?
Speaker 2:to help him, even though he thought in his mind he didn't need any help at all. I resorted to everything from looping in the rest of my family and they were all very supportive and trying so hard to write emails and urge people to give him the help he needed. It was only when he became so obvious that it was dangerous that that was how he was getting medical treatment. It took extreme measures, even the crisis lines, the 988,. Nothing was working, because it's hard to believe unless you're in front of it, and he can pull himself together very coherently in front of professionals, and so it was very difficult and we struggled with that.
Speaker 1:So when he would get in front of professionals, he would put himself in a situation so they would diagnose him as being okay, but ultimately seems like they would see through that eventually.
Speaker 2:Well, he definitely did not like being in a hospital setting. He definitely didn't think he needed medical treatment. So I think he would do everything he can with his intelligence to sound very, you know, well-spoken.
Speaker 1:Right. So in that case, what do you do? You have all these things lining up that tell you there is a problem and it definitely can get worse. How do you handle that? How do you get it across to these people therapists, the psychotherapists, the doctors, everyone that's involved in diagnosing him how do you get them to step up and say, look, we need to help him?
Speaker 2:You would hope that professionals would pick up on it and would know enough to ask the family members. It wasn't until he tried to kill his father that the witnesses that watched Nick at the time of the attack described how he was acting. That it was more believable because it's not just family trying to say, hey, you need to pay attention, it was the actual neighbors.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what happened next? I've heard that people in psychosis will do something and then ultimately it lands them within the legal system. Once they get in that legal system, sometimes they'll get the medications that they need to at least tamper it down. So did that happen at all?
Speaker 2:The police used pepper spray to stop him from attacking his father outside on the lawn and then used a four-point restraint and probably injection of some sort of calming agent to get him into a hospital setting. The hospital spoke very strongly to the courts because the police followed him and you know he was technically under arrest at the time. He was in the hospital, but the police called the courts and asked the judge to just make sure that he is not punished but given treatment instead. So they sent him to jail. They didn't believe that he was mentally ill when he first arrived after the attack from the hospital. He stayed one night there. They believed him when he said he's never been hospitalized before. He doesn't have a mental illness, he's fine. So the lawyer and the judge decided to send him to jail.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, the ride over the deputy in the van said he was acting strangely, took off his clothes.
Speaker 2:He was definitely not well and they brought him back for competency restoration and he spent three months in the state hospital where they wanted to keep him for six more months and give him the medically necessary treatment.
Speaker 2:But in our state the psychiatric state hospital is run by the Department of Corrections and unfortunately they did not take the advice of the clinical director of the state hospital, delaying the trial where they would be given permission to medicate him. So he spent three months with no medication, suffering in psychosis, untreated, in that state hospital, with all the medical staff wanting desperately to medicate him. But the legal system the Department of Corrections had the final say and they said nope, we're going to keep the court case going and delaying. And they even hired an independent consultant, using extra money, to come in and re-examine and re-evaluate the forensic evaluation report to say he has the right to refuse medical treatment. And when it came down to it, the judge deciding whether to keep him at that state hospital denied the hospital's petition because he said, and I quote though Nick is delusional, he is competent.
Speaker 1:Okay. So how can one be delusional and competent at the same time? Somehow this just doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2:Which is a reflection on the training the judges in Massachusetts have. And if we had an assisted outpatient treatment law, the judges would work side by side with the psychiatrists and the people with the medical training. Mental illness is the only area that depends on untrained medical professionals to make medical decisions for them. You know, it's just, it's not right.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. I've heard that the biggest institution for mental health care is like the LA prison.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's a problem. When you hear things like that, that is a huge issue. Unfortunately, the prisons are not adapted to be a medical facility, so this story and journey that you've told me seems to be one that is very common all across the country. So that tells us that we really need to find a way to marry the legal system and the medical system together so that we can get something that works to put these people that have these issues in a place where they really need to be, so that way they get the right help that they actually need.
Speaker 2:When I called the jail to tell them to watch out for Nick's specific signs that he's in psychosis, I was transferred to the director of all the security guards and he was so good. We talked for an hour and he said at one point you know, I'm a parent myself, I've been working at this jail for 35 years and I've never seen this many people with antipsychotic medications prescribed in our jail. And he started gearing up. He's like I don't know how you're handling this as a parent to watch your loved one be so lost and but yet be incarcerated.
Speaker 1:So what happened from there? You got all these people realizing that there is an issue, he has a problem, yet nothing seems to be happening. So what was next? On the journey, has he gotten any help at all?
Speaker 2:Well, that's where Ann came in. She had the idea to write to the judge His father, who was the victim, write a letter and say we're really concerned as parents that there's no mental health or medical treatment for our son available. So the judge made it possible for some probation and so for that offense he is not sitting in jail right now he is out, but he still has an ongoing case that has a trial coming up.
Speaker 1:So, now that he's out, is he getting the help that he needs? Has he settled down at all, and how's he doing?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately he is not medicated still to this day he is forced to see a therapist, which is better than nothing. We are all as a family still very hesitant to visit with him physically. His unpredictability, and I am a little afraid of him right now because he's still unaware. He's mentally ill and he is not aware the danger he poses.
Speaker 1:So what's the answer? He definitely needs some help. He definitely needs his medication so they can get back to a more livable way of life. So what's the answer? How do we get there? How do you get there so he can live a better life?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately it's a waiting game and, hoping you know, I begged our Department of Mental Health to get him services and they sent over a representative to the jail twice asking Nick, will you please come and get services from us? And Nick politely refused because he says he has no mental illness and our state policies are so backwards. They say the only way you can get our Department of Mental Health services is if you volunteer for them. But if you have anosognosia or lack of insight which, like seven different medical facilities diagnosed him with, he can't know he has an illness. So it's like they're discriminating against him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very tough situation. Now I've heard that they've got alternative medicines now, like a shot that can last up to 30 days or more.
Speaker 2:Oh, six months even, or a year. They have all kinds of long-acting injectable antipsychotic medications and street psychiatrists who administer them and they can be ordered. But in the state of Massachusetts I think there are more strict guides and it's just been difficult because of how well and convincing he is when he's, you know, able to speak to professionals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've talked with several different people and they tell me that when they've gone through psychosis and different things of that nature, that they've lost a period of time.
Speaker 2:You can lose, yeah, memory of what happened. In fact, that's what happened when we asked him about certain instances. He doesn't recall saying or doing the things he said and did.
Speaker 1:That's what happens with psychosis that he could actually figure out what might have been real is he looked at it and if it seemed logical then he would go with it. The rest he would just cast aside yeah, because it's not taught enough.
Speaker 2:we have a person in our organization living with schizophrenia, daryl herman, who speaks very plainly and clearly about what psychosis is and the delusions, the hallucinations. These are things that come with psychosis, that they're not educating the patients enough about, and if they did know more maybe they'd have a better handle on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure you bring up Daryl. He's been on the podcast Great. Yes, he had a lot of great information and I hope that people get a lot from what he had to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he speaks very clearly and intelligently. He's done so much research. He's had so many years of talking and volunteering in mental hospitals. His knowledge is very valuable. I'm glad he's on your show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's been on and he, like you said, had just superb information. So, in closing, what would you like to tell the listeners about what you're going through, but not only that information that others might be going through, that they just need to know?
Speaker 2:Well, you shouldn't punish someone for no-fault brain illness that they were given, unfortunately, after their legal age. My son, when he was brought over for the 72 court hearings in the span of a very short amount of time after his psychotic break he was shuffled in and out of the van with no windows for a two-hour commute to the courthouse, from where he was incarcerated in shackles from his hands to his feet, shuffling into the courtroom, standing in front of a judge, not being able to even speak because the judge didn't call upon him and he just told it's going to be delayed again. So five different courthouses, 72 court appearances and all this money could have gone towards his treatment instead of our taxpayer dollars going to the courts. This has to stop.
Speaker 1:So how long has this been happening? How old is he now?
Speaker 2:23.
Speaker 1:And it started three years ago 20.
Speaker 2:April of 2022, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so about three years ago. That's a lot of grief, a lot of time, a lot of money that could have been put into other areas for sure. Yeah, hopefully this will help get the word out there, because the biggest thing that I see is the misunderstanding of it all People that don't understand psychosis. When they hear about it, they think that it's just someone being bad, when in reality it's someone that's doing some things that appear to be bad, but they don't think that it's bad. That's why they need help.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and they think they're even trying to fight for their life. You know, save someone depending on the delusion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so hopefully we can get more education to the judges, the lawyers, the DAs, the people that need to know, so that way the money that's being spent when these people go in front of them is being spent on different alternatives, which actually would help the person that needs it the most.
Speaker 2:The medical students as well as the medical professionals. Some of them aren't as experienced with people with anosognosia because, frankly, they're not getting in front of them often enough.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You saw how hard it was for me to get my son in front of a professional.
Speaker 1:Yeah right. Well, this has been great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Speaker 2:Of course. Thank you for having me, Thank you for giving a chance to the voices of the people who are incarcerated. Their families watched with helplessness and tiredness because their hearts are broken every day. So you giving a voice to them is a real gift.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for your kind words. I appreciate you coming on. Thanks again, thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom Contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me, the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.