Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Justin Volpe : How Peer Support Changes Lives
Justin Volpe shares his journey from being diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and incarcerated to becoming a certified recovery peer specialist who has trained over 3,500 police officers in crisis intervention.
His story demonstrates how individuals with lived experience can transform systems and save lives by bridging gaps between law enforcement, courts, and treatment providers.
• Diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder in his early 20s after struggling with substance abuse
• Released from jail through Miami's Jail Diversion Program, which provides support, therapy, and resources
• Became a peer specialist within 8 months of incarceration, helping others navigate the system
• Worked for 14 years getting thousands of people out of incarceration and connecting them to services
• Describes his role as a "bridger" between systems that don't typically communicate with each other
• Trained over 3,500 police officers in Crisis Intervention Team (CIT) approaches
• Featured in documentaries "The Definition of Insanity" and Ken Burns' "Hiding in Plain Sight"
• Now works nationally with state behavioral health teams at NASMHPD
• Advocates for including people with lived experience at policy and planning tables
• Emphasizes that recovery is possible: "I was written off and told I'd die on the street"
Tell everyone everywhere about Why Not Me: The World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone that you are not alone in this world.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me? The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Speaker 1:Welcome to why Not Me? The World Humanity Over Handcuffs, the Silent Crisis special event. Joining us today is Justin Volpe. He's a certified recovery peer specialist and a shining example of how individuals living with mental illness can play a vital role in collaborating with law enforcement, service providers and anyone in need of support. Justin has trained over 2,500 police officers through a crisis intervention team program and continues to make a national impact by helping others. He's here to share his inspiring story and wealth of knowledge. It's an honor to have him with us today. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. You're a mental health advocate. Can you tell us what led you down this path?
Speaker 2:You're a mental health advocate. Can you tell us what led you down this path? You know, my own diagnosis when I was 22 or 23 years old really shaped that journey to want to give back to the community and help other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always great to help others. Can you give the listeners a little of your background so they can understand what led to this path that you're doing, so they can?
Speaker 2:understand what led to this path that you're doing. Yeah, absolutely, Tony. I live in Miami, Florida, and at 22 or 23 years old, I was struggling with substance use and alcohol issues. I was put into a rehab and I thought that that was my problem. But when I stayed clean off the drugs and alcohol, those problems persisted and it ended up being a diagnosis of what is now considered schizoaffective disorder. I was hearing voices, I was seeing things that weren't there all in all, while working and trying to maintain my daily life. This disorder led to a lot of turbulent times in my life and ended up being incarcerated at 23 years old in 2007 in the Miami-Dade County Jail.
Speaker 1:During your time of incarceration, was there a pivotal event or experience that occurred which fundamentally altered your life? Altered your life, compelling you to recognize the necessity of personal improvement and inspiring you to leverage the insights and knowledge you acquired to positively impact the lives of others.
Speaker 2:Well, you know something about some mental health diagnosis is everybody else seems to know that there's an issue, but to know inside that something's not adding up takes a level of awareness that I did not have at the time. But it wasn't until I went into the judicial system. I was released from court, from jail, through a court program to help people with mental health and co-occurring disorders called the Jail Diversion Program. That's where I got introduced to Judge Leifman's program. After I got released into this outpatient treatment program, I was given the support I needed to get back on my feet, given education, a lot of different types of therapy and access to resources I didn't have before.
Speaker 2:After I started to take this recovery journey, I started to feel better and then, within eight months of being incarcerated, I was given an opportunity to become a peer specialist. A peer specialist is somebody with lived experience in the jail diversion program. So as soon as I got it and understood what I had to do to maintain, I was given the opportunity to give service to others being released from the justice system, and I did that for 14 years. Tony and I got thousands of people out of incarceration to help them get back on their feet and stay out of places like the streets and the hospitals and the jails by trying things a different way.
Speaker 1:Everyone has their own unique style when it comes to helping others. Some lean towards a more aggressive approach, others take a gentler, more passive tack, and then there's everything in between. What was your style like? How did you go about supporting those who needed your help, and how does your help affect them?
Speaker 2:Well, a peer specialist and a peer role is really a mutual understanding that you have with the people that you're working with. So the unique style that I really had to do was become a bridger in the community. So many different people don't talk to each other. The jails and the courts don't talk to the treatment providers, they don't talk to the housing providers, they don't talk to transportation and a peer specialist. My role was to really get everybody on the same page and hustle out there on the street every day. Because I didn't work in the office, I was on the street hustling for people to keep them out of these systems, and some of that was having open lines of communication, showing up for people to doctor's appointments, bringing them to court, getting them clothes, getting them food, getting them transportation all in their wellness journey to actually avoid a justice system where that would not help get them better.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a great description of what you do. I think that's going to help a lot of people understand it. Now, what about CIT training? Do you do anything like that to help police navigate situations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I do CIT training. I've trained over 3,500 police officers in Miami-Dade County and that training would help keep somebody out of the justice system altogether at first. So if a police officer received that training, they should, if they spot somebody in crisis, be able to de-escalate them and not arrest them, and get them to the proper resources if needed. That's not a jail cell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really really good. Now, what about the communication centers? When we think of first responders, we always think about police. Yet before the police get there, you've got 911. Do you do any work with them so they can get the information needed to hopefully send a CIT-trained officer to the scene? Have you worked with the 911 operators?
Speaker 2:A little bit. I've done some training with the mobile crisis teams that would actually respond other than police if a call comes into a crisis line, and we've done some training with 911 operators so they can help distinguish a call that may be someone in crisis, so they know the kind of vibe or what that feels like. Because without that training they may not understand the difference between if an actual crime is happening or if somebody is experiencing a crisis.
Speaker 1:Okay, have you ever been involved in a crisis situation where you've witnessed and assisted both the police in managing the scene and the individual in need?
Speaker 2:I have been involved in a lot of crisis situations in the community, like you just explained, and my biggest thing is communication, making sure the person being served needs are met and that they're understood completely, as well as the police, so kind of like a bridger in between in that relationship to make sure everything's good and working smoothly to help the person in need.
Speaker 1:Okay, suppose you arrive at a scene where someone has experienced psychosis and facing serious challenges. The responding police officer hasn't received CIT training, yet you're there to assist. What would your approach be? Police officers often have only seconds to react to a situation, and the goal is to prevent it from escalating into something harmful for anyone involved. How would you de-escalate the situation, help the officer understand what you're doing, yet supporting the person in crisis so that, ideally, things resolve peacefully and don't take a turn for the worse?
Speaker 2:You know, life's all about relationships, right? So even if somebody was not trained properly and they were a participant in the jail diversion program at the time, I was able to stand up for them and vouch for them and say, hey, I'm a court employee, this person is working with us, kind of like they're okay. You know what's the problem. Let's talk about this and even, you know, make an excuse for the person if they're not doing well, like, oh, you know, something happened. But it's all about education and relationships. Having, at the time, a county or court badge when speaking to somebody else that may work for the same department in the police goes a long way on the street than just somebody else that they may not recognize or be able to relate to in that situation.
Speaker 1:Dealing with situations like psychosis or a major meltdown in autism can be challenging. These conditions often present complex symptoms that are difficult to diagnose, especially when you only have a few minutes or seconds to assess a situation and determine the best way to manage it, so to prevent it from escalating to a situation that gets completely out of control.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing which is kind of the opposite of the way officers are taught to respond immediately to things and they have that triggered stress of responding to calls all day and they're ready to go is really to take a step back and helping have clear communications, like if the officer is trained to have that call come in through the right path to let people know.
Speaker 2:Let them know that you know this person may be experiencing crisis or a difficult time right now to really approach them differently and I've seen officers really strive with this. We know so much is going wrong in so many of these encounters nationally and it's just not right. And there's good police officers caught on the other side of that too that I've worked with that are more effective than some social workers that I've worked with. So it really depends on the person responding to these calls and their education and the want to serve. You know I worked with this one officer. They were doing people's laundry on the street. They were helping them with their laundry, helping them get to the appointments. You know incredible stuff that you don't hear about. Then, unfortunately, you'll see somebody that's not trained well or at all and respond to somebody in crisis, and they're the ones that make the news.
Speaker 1:Yes, there are definitely a lot of good people out there doing their jobs and they deserve recognition as well. How does the training you provide to police officers intersect with the role of the specialist who supports individuals navigating the ongoing court process, particularly given that not all individuals involved have consistent police encounters, and considering the officers you may train may not directly correlate with those responding to specific calls?
Speaker 2:Well, let me just clarify a few things. So my job as a peer specialist was to support people in the ongoing court process. Not everybody had a police encounter all the time, but it did happen from time to time. The training I do with police is off hours, right to do the training separately, so that may not be a direct correlation between the officers I'm able to work with on the training to some of these calls.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense. Now, do you help them when they get into the legal system, or do you help them before they get in the legal system, or do you try to do both?
Speaker 2:Both because it's really about education and I don't work there anymore. I work for a national mental health agency that's in Arlington, virginia now, but I continue to do CIT training as a volunteer with officers. But when I worked for the court for 14 years, everybody had agreed voluntarily to be a part of this jail diversion program. So even though they had criminal charges pending, they were given a chance to go on an alternate route to get some help to get the state attorney to drop the charges. So if they successfully completed this program which involved community treatment and help peer support, this program which involved community treatment and help peer support getting jobs, getting housing, if they were able to navigate that, the state would drop their charges.
Speaker 1:Okay. Did you ever have a situation where you was trying to assist someone, yet, in spite of all your efforts, it didn't seem to click for you? The more you both tried, the more you felt it wasn't going to work. And then, after some time, whatever that was, it came together.
Speaker 2:Have you ever experienced something like that? Absolutely. You see, you have to meet people where they're at and with peer support. You're not forcing this approach on them, because it's really up to the person to want to make that change. And unfortunately, as we know, some people don't get to make that change right.
Speaker 2:Because what I've seen in my experience of getting thousands of people out of jail for almost 15 years is that people do get incarcerated, they do live on the streets and sometimes they do die, and that is a harsh reality that I have to tell you that just because they were involved in this program.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a miracle either, but there were people that did come back multiple times and I saw people get help multiple times. So that means they were arrested multiple times, given multiple chance at this program and then finally be able to receive some help multiple chance at this program and then finally be able to receive some help. One gentleman was able to close out multiple felonies, go back to school, get sober in a recovery program and work again and not be involved with the justice system, for I think it's been at least 10 years now, so that's an accomplishment. You know you look at recidivism. You know you can't expect people to maybe, like, become doctors and lawyers they should and they can. But what I look at as a win is staying off the street, staying out of incarceration, living some sort of meaningful life that matters to the person.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us about the company that you're working with now?
Speaker 2:Can you tell us about the company that you're working with now? I work for an organization dubbed the acronym NASHVID, which is the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors. Long acronym, so say that three times fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a tongue twister for sure. So are you in Virginia now?
Speaker 2:I'm in Miami, florida. I work remotely and I work with states. Now I use all that experience that I learned from working in Miami on the streets and my own personal experience of recovery which, by the way you know, I live a fully functional life for somebody that's been diagnosed with an illness like schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. I have a family, I have a home, I have two cars. I live a life that before in this country if you got a diagnosis it was a death sentence basically to have, or a life of institutions. But my job now is really to work with states and territories and their behavioral health teams and to really advocate for people with lived experience like myself and other people in different aspects of their community that they're a part of their states and their programming and that they continue that when they build systems out, that people like us are included and at the table.
Speaker 1:I think that's awesome. Now, when you first started, you was just in Miami and Dade County, is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So when you started out, you was working within the legal system people on the street, trying to help them in that way. Now you're working with state legislators and people of that nature. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Really state behavioral health teams. So it did go from a local to a national level and that is different. It's not necessarily like within legislation and policy, but it does touch that sometimes with the people that we work with at the states. Through my time at the Jail Diversion Program, judge Leifman and I starred in a documentary called the Definition of Insanity, which is amazing, if you want to talk about it a little bit later. And I was in a Ken Burns documentary on youth mental health, hiding in Plain Sight, which also aired on PBS three years ago.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Documentaries are just so good. Can you expand on those documentaries a little?
Speaker 2:So the definition of insanity was based on my time at the Jail Diversion Program which I explained to you, and it kind of encompasses that peer specialists, cit officers and participants of the court going and what it kind of entailed and that was just a snapshot of kind of what our daily life was like. And then Hiding in Plain Sight was a Ken Burns film on youth mental health, because the youth mental health is experiencing crisis too, and it followed about 20 to 25 people, a lot of young adults, some youth I was 35 when they made the film. I made the cut, thank God. I don't know how I got in a youth film at 35, but they followed their stories and how they came across the system and it is a very powerful film. They're both very powerful films.
Speaker 1:So have you seen being in both these documentaries have had an impact on your life. Have you noticed other people looking at you, giving you more credibility because of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, it adds credibility. It adds credibility to just stay above ground and just to live a life that, as somebody with my lived experience, live a better life than some people that are more educated than me. They may make more money than me, but I live a good life and that shows and shines through of what this work's about about doing the next right thing and showing up every day.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's amazing how you've made your mark in Miami. Now that you've expanded to the national stage to help people, what do you envision for yourself over the next, let's say, three to five years? How do you see your role evolving and what changes do you hope to inspire with your work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my lens is really just that. You know I'd love to see more expansion on police training, people with lived experience as part of those trainings. So you think about people in crisis experiencing different things, even autism. You know they need to be a part of these trainings so police and first responders can really understand what it's like firsthand to experience something like that. Right, the other thing I want to see is better access to care for people, different alternatives instead of traditional health care. This is just my wish list. You know it's not saying it's going to happen, but there should be other pathways and chances for people to recover. Not everybody, like myself, will get help through the justice system and we need avenues preventively that people can walk into open doors before they end up in a police car or a jail cell.
Speaker 1:Those are great points. As you said, some of those can be implemented. Unfortunately, some won't. How do we elevate this to a level where there's a stronger presence, addressing the needs of not just autistic individuals or those with mental health challenges, but the entire spectrum? Mental health is a broad umbrella. It covers many different conditions. So how do we get all these entities to collaborate effectively and work with people like you who can share real lived experiences? How do we help those sitting behind desks understand what you're trying to convey about the realities faced by people living on the streets?
Speaker 2:It really, really advocacy is involved in all of it and that we really need to advocate for these systems to be better, and that, you know, just because we're going to throw money at a situation, we keep getting funding, funding, funding, but it seems like these problems are worse every year. So how can we get our best bang for our buck? How can we make sure? I think, you know, instead of putting out like a national initiative for everybody, it really starts, like you said, at the local community level, and every community looks different. Every state looks different, every community within the state looks different, and there should be some things that are common sense for all, but unique and specific to those populations being served.
Speaker 1:And then his answer was common sense, no-transcript. So how do we bridge the gap and connect with people who only see the stigma? How do we reach those who haven't had the lived experiences like you have? If we can meet them on their level and show them we're all just regular people, maybe we can break through those misconceptions. So how do we get past the barriers and help them see a different, better perspective?
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes you know they say a consultant or a subject matter expert is somebody that lives, you know, in another state, because there's people in your local community or state that you're hearing they may be annoying. Right, you hear the same thing. We need change. We need change. But if somebody over here says, hey, we did this, wow, what a great idea. And the people in the state say, well, we've been talking about that for years.
Speaker 2:So, really having these people at the table, and when you look at community healing, when you look at these practices, having open forums where discussions can be had and tensions don't have to be high to really break down those barriers and that looks different in a lot of places, and you know I am generalizing If you really want to reach the population you're serving, they need to be at the table, no matter what it is. And we need to really remember and, like you said, get back to fundamentals, common sense. We need to just sit down and talk with each other and listen to each other. Look at the data that backs all of it, look at the facts. Is this working or not? And if it's not, let's do something together, because we're supposed to be in this together and live in a country where we should all strive.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think that's the most important message that we can put out. There is that we need to learn and we need to adapt to each other in all our differences. We need to find a way to share your story with people so they'll listen and learn from it. Hopefully, that can help break down the stigma. Once someone hears what you've been through, the challenges you've faced, what you've been through, the challenges you've faced, how you've overcome them and where you are now, they should be inspired. They should be standing in awe, welcome you rather than casting judgment or turning away.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of old myths about people that are unstable and violent. People with serious mental illness like schizophrenia and bipolar, are actually more likely to be victims of crimes than actually commit them, and there's a lot of old kind of thinking around that or that people they have seen on the subway maybe talking to themselves, not smelling well, and they just think that that's all of them, that's what that looks like and that's all they are, when that's just what can happen. But it's not the only pathway to healing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And to kind of further what you just said, I think one of the biggest challenges after speaking with doctors and lawyers and judges and all the legislators is the big unknown for people that's never dealt with anyone this autistic or has mental illness. They just get scared by it and, unfortunately, because that, they can be very judgmental. I think you earlier said getting everybody at the table. I think that's a great. Unfortunately, some of those people that will be at that table are some of the people that I just talked about that could be very judgmental. How do we get them to be less judgmental? Because if they see what you've done and people that you've helped have done, it just shows that it can be so much better than what they think it is.
Speaker 2:We should have those family member voices at the table too, Tony, because who could speak more than a mother's love or a family's love for somebody that's experienced some of these difficulties? But you're right, their stigma is a real thing and I still encounter it. I think I'm at a stage in my life where people don't know that I live with some of these illnesses or disorders, and when I come and approach that I do, it shocks people and my message can go a long way. But it's still a struggle and we need to do better to educate these people that may have biases and stigmas toward people with mental health conditions and autism. We still got more work to do. That's why we do this. That's why we keep coming back, because we're not there yet.
Speaker 1:Yes, I totally agree with you. So, in closing, what would you like to tell the listeners that you think is very important? That they just need to know on what you're trying to do?
Speaker 2:I want the listener to hear that anybody can recover. You know I was written off and said to leave to dead on the street. Here I have a fully functional great life written off by doctors, family members, you name it and I kept coming back and just know that you can never count somebody out and that there's always still hope. And if you have that glimmer of hope and you put in the work, that you can recover and you can live a great life and you deserve it and everybody deserves it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree. Well, this has been great Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Speaker 2:Thanks, tony, I really appreciate you having me on the show.
Speaker 1:It's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom Contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me, the World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.