Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE : East Forest's Journey from Anxiety to Musical Healing
What if music could be your path to healing and inner peace? Dive into an inspiring conversation with East Forest, a pioneer in meditation and transformative music.
Discover how his personal battle with anxiety and depression led him to create soul-soothing compositions that have become a beacon of hope for many. His journey from crafting music for personal solace to becoming a guiding light in meditative and shamanic practices worldwide is nothing short of remarkable.
East Forest’s evolution from piano and electronic elements to a rich tapestry of flutes, Tibetan bowls, and emotive vocal expressions is a testament to the power of music in fostering resilience and peace.
Explore the fascinating world of musical creation and its ripple effects across cultures and audiences.
We uncover the magic behind East Forest's dual approach to music: blending meticulously planned studio work with spontaneous compositions from plant medicine ceremonies.
His collaborations with artists like Keith Sweaty and Peter Broadbrook have birthed albums like "Karen" and "Burn," which resonate universally.
Hear touching stories, such as how a paramedic used the "Music for Mushrooms" album to provide comfort during a psychedelic crisis, showcasing music's transformative power in the most critical situations.
Join us as we traverse the dynamic realms of live performances and groundbreaking film projects with East Forest.
Learn about the artistic preparation for an upcoming concert in Nashville and the significance of unique venues in inspiring creativity.
We delve into his new film "Music for Mushrooms," which intertwines themes of mental health and psychedelic therapy, offering a sense of community and collective healing.
As the film tours the country, aligning with World Mental Health Day, we wrap up with East Forest's future aspirations and opportunities for audiences to engage with his ongoing journey through art and healing.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me, the World Podcast, hosted by Tony Maitour, Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism Around the World. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me, the World.
Speaker 1:I'm joined today with East Forest. He's a trailblazer in meditation and inner resilience. He offers guided meditations, retreats and a podcast 10 Laws. With East Forest. He's collaborated with institutions across social justice, mental health, science, music and creative fields, including Google, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, New Earth and TED. His work has appeared on Bright Antenna, Domino 1631 Recordings, Aquilo Records, as well as Tender Loving Empire and Universal Decca. He's here to talk about his music and his new feature-length film, Music for Mushrooms. So thanks for coming on. Thank you, man. So if you would give us a little information on how your music started then, once you started getting into it, how it expanded to become what it's become today, with the east force project.
Speaker 2:You know it started because I was feeling a lot of anxiety and depression. I have my whole life. I was living in new york as in my 20s. You know things were falling apart. I think when things apart, there's often some kind of doors opening to, or maybe it's clearing the rubble or, I don't know, burns the fields, however you want to look at it. Sure, I think we didn't understand them. I kind of wanted to return to that place. It was really a place of solace, a place of peace. So I was trying to write music that would help me go to those places and that really was the initial impetus, was soothing my own pain internally, very personal.
Speaker 1:Yes, I get that, and lots of times. That's the kind of pain that it takes to really grow and expand. So you was in your early 20s, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What was the path and how did it develop from there?
Speaker 2:Well, it was really through the magic of serving other people because I had a friend that I had met who got really into that music that I made the very first record and he started organizing these meditative shamanic circles for me to play music to, and that wasn't something that I thought I was going to do, and so, by offering this to others and seeing the benefit for them they were working through their own stuff it just kept propelling me to do more and more of it because you just feel like, well, it's helping this person or these other people. Therefore, if I were to stop, I'm no longer helping them. But that's mutually beneficial, of course, because the more I play it, the better I feel.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Right. Right, so you started out early in your career with a more calming type of music that really helped others. Did you do other styles, did it evolve into other things? Because when you're helping others, you never know what can happen from there.
Speaker 2:That's a good question, like how did the evolution of the music happen? Because of the service to others, a lot of the music I was improvising and playing in those spaces like guiding people, and so it very much is purpose driven music. In that way, in that moment, it has a very specific use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that gives it a chance to breathe a little bit as well.
Speaker 2:By doing that for many, many years, it starts to get its own language, like a musical language of how you do that or why you do that, and so in that way, I think it absolutely shaped the sound and the instruments and the fact that it was like long form or if I'm bringing in field recordings, because that brought a particular quality, you know, and that just became the language of the music I was making.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice. What was the instrumentation that you used starting out, compared to what you may be using now?
Speaker 2:It's always been a lot of piano or keyboard, based as the primary you know, glue or instrument, melodic instrument. I was using a lot of electronic elements too, because you're by yourself and that's one way to make rhythm and beats. You can do it on a computer. But I also started using a lot of percussion shakers and I wanted to bring a diversity of sounds and I could play woodwinds a little bit. So I brought flutes in, brought harmonicas in melodicas. I also brought in non-melodic instruments like Tibetan bowls or gongs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great collection of instrumentation.
Speaker 2:Part of that was wanting to just have a variety of sound and it was also seeing, like, what other sounds can I play that are also going to be conducive to an inner journey, to that sort of calming of the nervous system?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds like great music. Did you use your?
Speaker 2:voice at all. I started bringing more of my voice back into it. I started singing more, but finding I like doing a kind of like glossolalia, like singing without specific words. It's sort of like toning or words that sound like another language maybe, but more like vowels and so forth, and that developed over the years because in the ceremonies I didn't want to like I don't know if like, if you say words, they're very specific in a sense, like it has a meaning to people and the tones could have any meaning. It was just emotion and so that became more of something that I do to this day. Now it's just second nature, but it came from that space.
Speaker 1:And that's a great place to start, because it allows you to find your inner peace, allows you to evolve, and it sounds like you've been able to accomplish that. Now that you're out there, people are hearing your music. You're getting to meet people because you're doing more live shows. What kind of reaction are you getting and how is it affecting you knowing that you really truly are helping a lot of people in their lives?
Speaker 2:It's the personal stories you would hear afterwards, like someone might tell you that they had a relationship with their father that was very difficult. You know it's negative in their mind. It's a story that they're carrying a lot of pain In the experience that we would have, together with the music. They might have said you know, I had this vision of my father and eventually I got to this place where I was able to say I love you, dad. I would say I've never been able to say that, so I would recognize it like wow, okay, that is your internal process, it's your world. I didn't tell you anything. I'm not telling you what to say to your dad. I don't even know what's going on. I'm just serving and creating a kind of world that's conducive for that person to be able to do their work. That unlocked a kind of door.
Speaker 1:As in anything that starts out with a great promise, you started and you grew. You got to know people, they got to know you. Did you find yourself in a situation of where it started expanding because more people were talking and seeing what you're doing to help people and what your music is doing? How did that all come together for you?
Speaker 2:It did, and the first community that was making those invitations was the yoga community back in like 2015. I don't know if you remember like in that time there was this whole thing kind of emerging like yoga became a bigger thing, and also there were these festivals like Wanderlust festivals, where they're emerging big music concerts and yoga classes. During the day Moby played and they had these big names. So I got hired to play a lot of those festivals and I think the yoga world is recognizing something in the music that was conducive to mental health and inner journey and they were the first ones to help me kind of get out there and build an audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was such a great start for you. How have you seen your audience change? This was 2014,. 2015. Now we're 10 years later. How have you seen your audience change and what do you expect to see when you're out there now?
Speaker 2:Well, I think part of it's a symptom of the way the world is. You know the world's getting harder and crazier, like the pandemic, for instance, like more and more people are looking for their own authentic paths and tools, frankly, to heal or to like get by. So music is a very accessible one and I've noticed more of an international audience and I've also noticed more of a diversity of both backgrounds but ages that are into this. So a lot of non-yogis, of course, just people and hearing the way people are using the music or have been introduced to it in all sorts of different ways, Of course, from psychedelic therapy, which is becoming much and much more mainstream in our cultural conversation, but maybe it was in like a bodywork session or actually in like kids art classes or people using it. With the passing of a family member, I mean really powerful moments in people's lives. It seems to be helpful to sort of amplify or help them walk through emotional spaces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's just so good when you record, do you record with a purpose? Do you have a group of songs that you can put together and create a body of work that's solely for that purpose? Or is it putting together the songs and then you hope that people like it?
Speaker 2:I mean, you know I could say it was a part of a plan, but as part of half plan, half it just unfolds. I would record in two ways. One was in these medicine ceremonies plant medicine ceremonies where I'm improvising. So that's a very unique situation because things are just coming out and you're just recording what's happening and then some of that turns into records. Then I also will make studio records that are more traditional in the sense that you know I can work on it over months and other people can come and play on it, and I like doing both. Those can be more intentional because you might have a concept Like it could be anything, like I want to work with strings a lot on this record, or I want this one to be more of rhythm and lyrics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now you had an album out that was called Karen, I believe.
Speaker 2:Karen.
Speaker 1:It's like the stack of rocks you see when you're hiking on mountains. Yeah, now I understand that has been classified as a very calming collective body of music. So how did that come to life?
Speaker 2:Well, you know that one was actually a collaborative record with Keith Sweaty, who's a producer. That was very like 50-50 us just making a joint record. That one actually is somewhat of an outlier from my catalog in that it's more electronic and has a lot of lyrics. You know, that's just sort of what emerged through that collaboration. You never know it's going to happen. Yeah for sure I have a record. I collaborated with an artist named peter broadbrook a couple years ago and it's an album called burn, where a very different result came out. Like we went to ireland where he lives and recorded for one week and 12 songs came out of that week and all 12 were on the record in the order they were written, which has never happened to me before, and it's very like a lot of contemporary classical, experimental sounds, really beautiful, very acoustic, all acoustic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just never know how things are going to happen when you work with different people. So now that brings up another topic. You recorded and worked with another artist brings up another topic. You recorded and worked with another artist, this one in the uk. Did that lead you to live performances where you got to meet people from different parts of the world, seeing how they respond to your music and how it leads you to potentially not only helping people here in the us but people all around the world?
Speaker 2:well what? What I've seen is the similarities of the processes going on with people across countries, like we're all. Actually there's very similar things happening and there's an emergence everywhere. I mean China, australia, ireland, iceland, south Africa. Really it's amazing and I'm like, oh, there's such common ground here, emotionally, specifically to autism, actually recently two people came up to me after shows Both had autism and they just told me they wanted me to know of how the music spoke to them and has been helpful for them and specifically with them holding autism in their life. That's something like this is relevant to me. That was relatively. Actually, two people recently told me that them holding autism in their life that's something like this is relevant to me that was relatively.
Speaker 1:actually. Two people recently told me that that just shows how your music is touching people. And you're right. I've spoken with people all over the world and the common thing is that the stories they tell are pretty much all the same no matter where you go. So you've had autistic people come up to you. You've had varied people that have their issues, every one of them different. What's something that you can tell us? That where your music really made a difference and you just impacted you as much as it did them?
Speaker 2:It's a really wide range. I mean, here's a great story. A firefighter, he's a paramedic with firefighters, right, he's got the mustache, the whole thing, and he said you know his buddies, they had a call, psychotic break or I don't know. So they call the cops, essentially. But the firefighter paramedics show up. They kind of quickly figured out this might've been drug related and they all know that this guy. They're like well, you know about that world, why don't you go just talk to him first? So they're already.
Speaker 2:That was a somewhat smart thing as opposed to like everyone just comes in and their firefighter outfits and so he walks in there and says to all of his buddies, like, why don't you hang outside, don't come in? And the guy's in there in his place. Of course he's freaked out. Now the authorities have arrived and he instantly realizes the guy's taken mushrooms and taken more than he anticipated. He also recognizes that there's no immediate threat right now, that the guy's just really anxious. He's really bugging out and he asked him hey, on this tv here, do you have like youtube or spotify through there?
Speaker 2:That guy kind of like yeah. He's like can I, can I get in there? And he gets on there and he pulled up my music for mushrooms album it's a five-hour album to guide a journey and he got it going, got the volume right and he sat with him for 10 minutes and eventually the guy started calming down a lot, that's good. And then eventually said are you okay? That guy's like, yeah, I'm okay, I'm okay now. And they left. Wow, that's good. Imagine how that could have gone. Oh yeah, it could have gone bad. He could have got arrested. You know like been in a hospital tear at one of the worst days of his life could have been yeah, that's just awesome that it was handled that way, and even your music was a part of the solution.
Speaker 1:With all the songs that you've done, all the albums that you've done, which one, if you can name one, stands out, that really is the defining one that says what you do.
Speaker 2:I'd have to say the album Ram Dass that I did in collaboration with Ram Dass.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Ram Dass, for those who don't know, was a spiritual teacher who passed away 21, I believe he brought a lot of Eastern ideas to the West and was just a beautiful man. He was a really wonderful speaker and teacher. So we did this record where he spoke and I wrote music to it and that has reached a lot of people and a lot of people found it to be very, very calming, nice. They're like micro teachings that are very, they're universal. When you put it to music it's like a little movie. It scores it, it brings, it amplifies the emotion, and that one has done the rounds for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good. It's always nice to have one that you really look at that defines you in your mind of what you think that you are, one that you really look at that defines you in your mind of what you think that you are. Over the last 10 years or so, you've built an organic community of music that helps people, does so much good in the world. What's your thoughts on when you release a new product, on how it gets out there? How do you spread that word so that everybody knows that you've got it out there?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a lot to listen to these days and boys our attention pulled in every direction, so I'm grateful to anyone who is paying attention and they're listening. I think my music, too, is a little bit more of a slow burn, in that, you know, if I drop something it's not like usually there's this big explosion of yeah, some some of it like takes a while to listen to.
Speaker 2:you know it's long okay and so it takes time for it to gestate and seep into people's lives and I recognize that and it has a more organic process in which it then is being used, perhaps in certain modalities, and that takes time too, so I often have to have patience as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that, and patience is the toughest thing for an artist, because they want to get their music out there, they're excited about it, they want people to know about it. So patience is a very good thing that you have that A lot, don't. Are you doing a lot of live performances and if you do, are they specific areas where people need help, or are they just doing concerts and let the people come out to get to know you? What's your dynamic there and how are you getting yourself out there for live venues?
Speaker 2:You know it's a combination. Like I'm coming to Nashville for the first time, actually on November 15th, 2024. Yeah, so that's an example of like we met up with some deep tropics promoters, great promoters, and they had this idea of playing in I think it's an old Masonic building or like it's a really cool venue. It's a live concert and I'm really looking forward to exploring. Like I like playing in spaces Like that often inspires me, like that particular space to me looks really inspiring and sometimes it's festivals or it's a lot of invitations to play at different places. And, of course, we're doing this film right now, music for Mushrooms. So the film itself is playing theatrically and that takes me around. So it's a total combination of variety.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit about the film now.
Speaker 2:The film, in a nutshell, is about mental health.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So it's about music and mushrooms, psychedelic therapy, ceremony and music and are these things relevant today amidst everything going on? But I think the answer in essence, or what the film is really exploring, is like how do we live more authentically today? Or recognizing that what's happening in our society is the spiritual emergency, like at our core we all have wounds and traumas and we're reacting from them and that causes things like polarization and the loneliness, the epidemics of depression. So by sourcing within and sort of recognizing that our inner work, our work on ourselves, it really matters, because we need to spring out from there to make change in the world. That's the primary message of the film.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. How do they put it together? Is it musical? Is it more like a documentary? What's the basis of the way that they put it across to people so they get the message of what they're trying to tell?
Speaker 2:All of it. Yeah, so the movie is a hybrid. It's a narrative documentary, so there's what we call verite scenes, meaning like they're just real scenes, as opposed to talking heads which you might see in some documentaries. But actually we have conversations in there as well, and there's a lot of music. There's music sequences that are live on screen and also sort of montage-y, and the music goes from the foreground to the background. It's been really strong reactions, very emotional reactions from people Like while we're talking today, I'm in Encinitas, california, we have a screening tomorrow. It's sold out, and we just came from LA where it's playing right now. On October 10th, we're doing screenings all over the country. It's World Mental Health Day and we're specifically doing it on 1010. Because of that, to say like, hey, if we all come together and feel together and witness together in a theater, that means something Like we're amplifying that experience of being like oh, I'm not alone.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's a huge statement right there. So how long is the film?
Speaker 2:It's 82 minutes, so it's a feature length, but it's a nice and tight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great time and it sounds like it's a great film for the people that's going to come see it. So you've got a great body of work. You've done a lot of great things in the last 10 years. What's on the bucket list? What do you have to do that you still want to accomplish?
Speaker 2:I think, as any artist, you're never quite satiated in your expression and I think that's what drives us forward. And there's still a lot of things I want to do artistically that I either haven't had the opportunity to do or I'm developing towards it as an artist and that horizon keeps me driving forward. Again, going back to that sense of service, like I want to reach as many people as possible and I still think there's so many people yet to touch and to be in dialogue with energetically. That's what I'm excited to find creative ways to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds great. When you're out there, do you get a chance to meet and greet, talk with the people, get a real idea of what's going on, and then you can sit back and go man, this is really working and it's really helping a lot of people, and then you can feel real good about what you're doing. So do you get a chance to take and meet the people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. I mean, with the film I've been talking to a lot of people because we do panels when I'm at the events and I hear a lot of stories one-on-one. I also do a Patreon where it's more of a. I call it the council, and so we have more of a community there, but and then people engage on social media and you know, you hear stories and that's important too, so you're not just like working in a vacuum.
Speaker 1:So over the next few months, where can people come out and see you? Are you doing any live venues at all?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll be in Nashville, as I said, that's a music concert happening in November, and I'll be in Seattle, I believe also in November, and we have an event at a conference called Eudaimonia at the beginning of November, and here at the end of October there's a festival happening. I think I'm playing something in Mexico also. It's a Wanderlust event back full circle. So there's a variety of things happening, but the film is all over the place and the film is doing a lot of screenings, and some of those I'll be at, and some of those are just happening without me, of course, and that's at musicformushroomscom.
Speaker 1:That's great. Where can people find you that want to get more information about what you're doing?
Speaker 2:I'm at eastforestorg in the digital space or on social media, of course, but I think the website's great because it just it appoints you wherever you want to go or get you the information you need to know Music tickets, patreon, my own podcast, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell us a little about your podcast. What do you have on that?
Speaker 2:Similar. We talk a lot essentially about mental health, but also sometimes about nature technology. I mean, the glue that holds it together is it's about like, how do we live authentically, how do we make sense of this? So it could be information, it could be tools, it could be creative music, of course.
Speaker 1:Right sure.
Speaker 2:But we talk with a variety of people and sometimes I put on meditations too, that I put music behind and create, and that gets offered as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds like a very interesting podcast. Have you ever had people that have come up to you after a show or maybe during a screening that tells you they was going down a bad path, dark place in their life and how your music and some of the things that you're doing just kind of change their direction and really help them a lot?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard those stories but to be honest, maybe they're projecting a bit that you know the role I played in it. I think they maybe had powerful moments with the music and it was at a particular point in their life where it helped them catalyze something important, some decisions or processes, or catharsis. Yeah, I hear that a lot actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think you're being a little bit humble there, but that's okay. I think that's a good trait. Whether you believe it or not, sometimes that's their perception, and that's really.
Speaker 2:All that matters is that they think that you help them sure, like at the end of the day, placebo's effect is the same thing, right, it's still real. Like it's a change, it's those are. So, however it happens, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, that's the most beneficial part. They were listening to something that you put out there and it either changed their life or it put them on a different path, and it helped them a lot in their mind. So ultimately it was a catalyst that did something for them and hopefully bettered their lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're all doing our work. Like you know, all choices are valid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a win-win situation for everyone.
Speaker 2:It's fun. You know, like I said, if something helps someone else, it's helping me too. You know it's kind of the golden rule.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Where would you like to see yourself, let's say, the next three to five years?
Speaker 2:I'd love to just see the work reach so many more people, it really grows, and that it gives me the creative opportunities to do things I've always dreamed of. You know, I have a lot of creative things I want to make so I can share those with people that are much grander expressions and, frankly, more beautiful, and so I'm looking forward to having the resources to do that yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:I mean anything that anyone can do to help someone else.
Speaker 2:That's just a plus well, it would definitely make the world a better place if we're all had that sort of attitude yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So give us your website again one more time and plug the movie again.
Speaker 2:Eastforestorg musicformushroomsorg. I think the film will be interesting to people, whether they know anything about these worlds or not. It's a good film in that regard, so check it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds really great. Is there a soundtrack to the movie?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a soundtrack to the documentary that just came out a couple days ago. Yeah, the official documentary soundtrack. It's got 10 new songs, including two reworks, the live renditions I did of Ram Dass songs Also the artist Peter Brodrick and I have a song on there, and then seven other songs that are from those live ceremonies we were talking about. So really beautiful music. I think it's 59 minutes of music.
Speaker 1:That's great. There's nothing better than a great movie and a great soundtrack. So, with that said, I really appreciate you coming on. This has been really interesting, great conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, tony, it was fun. Yeah, my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom Contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me? The World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.