Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Temple Grandin: Part 2: Embracing the Spectrum – Insights and Strategies for Thriving with Autism
Unlock the complexities of autism with Dr. Temple Grandin, one of the most respected voices in the field.
Our in-depth conversation peels back the layers of the autistic experience, illuminating the importance of early intervention, hands-on learning, and the richness of talents within the spectrum.
Discover how practical life skills and work experience can transform lives, and learn strategies to support both verbal and non-verbal individuals in expressing themselves and thriving in a world that often misunderstands them.
Meltdowns can be one of the most challenging aspects of autism, but they don't have to be a barrier to peace.
Dr. Grandin and I share personal insights and strategies on navigating these intense moments with calmness and consistency.
From identifying the underlying causes of frustration to managing sensory sensitivities, this episode equips listeners with tools to help their loved ones gain control over their experiences and communicate more effectively.
Step into the shoes of someone living on the autism spectrum as we explore the vital role of educational support, accommodating workplaces, and the cultural understanding of autism.
Dr. Grandin's wisdom is complemented by a practical look at dietary needs and therapy choices for autistic children, emphasizing the significance of a teacher's connection over the name of a therapy.
Plus, Temple Grandin reflects on her illustrious career and how her no-nonsense approach to problem-solving has forged paths in agriculture and autism advocacy alike. Join us to embrace diverse perspectives and champion the autistic community through education, empathy, and empowerment.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me the World? Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone In this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding For autism Around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me the World. Last week I had the honor of interviewing Dr Temple Grandin for the first episode of year number two of my podcast. Our conversation was so engaging that it spanned two episodes this week. I am thrilled to have her join me again for part two of our discussion as we continue to explore her insights and expertise. So let's dive into the conversation with this question Do you see where we have made good strides to help make the autistic community a better one for everyone to live in?
Speaker 2:Well, I think some of the job stuff's gotten worse. Okay. Because now, where we've made good steps forward, is the early intervention.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:Now middle of a rural Illinois it was bad. But in other places where they're doing a good job on that, but nothing. You see it in the high schools, it's all in academics and testing. Okay. And taking out all the hands-on classes like home, ec and sewing and woodworking and metal shop. Now some places are putting that back in.
Speaker 1:Which is needed.
Speaker 2:The schools are not teaching any life skills, and Now some places are putting that back in, which is needed. The schools are not teaching any life skills and the thing is, the granddads that were autistic. They discover their autism when the kids get diagnosed. Had paper routes at age 11. Right. We've got to start teaching working skills like church volunteer job. I talked to a young lady within the last year. She was super proud that she was the church's coffee lady.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 2:When I was 13 years old, mother got me a sewing job with a local dressmaker that worked out of her home. Okay. She said kinds of things that can just be set up in the neighborhood. Teach working skills when somebody outside the family is the boss.
Speaker 1:Sure, really important. Yeah, that makes sense. It allows them to have structure, but also the ability to grow individually.
Speaker 2:Well, that's right, and I'm seeing too many parents where they do everything for the kid. I'm appalled. Teenagers with good grades who have never gone shopping by themselves, never had a bank account, never learned to handle money. Right. I had an allowance and I learned how to save money when I was seven and eight years old. That was standard 50s upbringing.
Speaker 1:Right the good old days, as they would say. So now I think you still teach at the college, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, I still teach, but I think now I do a lot of talks where I just try to give out practical information, like the talk I just did recently in the rural area okay, where they're on a two-year wait list. I said you can't wait two years, right, rural area okay, where they're on a two-year wait list. I said you can't wait two years. I said what are we going to do? We got to get some grandmothers in the community to come in and volunteer to work with these kids. And this is what I want out of the kids, and some teachers have a knack and some don't Slow down when you talk to them. I want turn-taking at little games, all kinds of little games. Teach them how to wait and take turns. I don't want skills like brushing teeth using a spoon correctly, putting their jacket on, brushing their hair, just skills, sure. And then the child should love going to therapy. You should get that kind of progress and the kid loving going to therapy, because waiting two years like from a three-year-old to a five-year-old that's atrocious.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Brain is developing at that time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's tremendously important for them. Now I'd like to tap your brain a little bit. Get some more information, because there are so many people listening that I think can relate to what you're saying. And anything that you can do and put out there, as you have been doing, only helps them and gives them ideas, because they can hear what you've been through and they can relate to that and hopefully that will help them in their future.
Speaker 2:Well, I've got some books that talk about the autistic brain, Also some of the research on how there's different kinds of thinking. My latest book, Visual Thinking Well, that's Thinking in Pictures. That's my early autobiography. Okay.
Speaker 2:I wrote that 26 years ago. This came out two years ago Visual Thinking Hidden Gifts of People biography. Okay, I wrote that 26 years ago. This came out two years ago visual thinking hidden gifts to people who think in pictures patterns and abstractions. We need the skills of these people Right Now. I want to give some hints on non-verbals non-speaking. Some non-speakers can learn to type. Okay. And we need to be encouraging that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But they have a problem with attention shift. So a tablet computer will often work the best because the print appears next to the keyboard. Print appears next to the keyboard Because on this desktop keyboard's way down here the print appears way up here. They can't make the attention shift. Okay. When you push the button, they need to see the letter right there, so tablet is usually the best thing to use.
Speaker 1:Yes, I've talked with several parents that have used iPads to help their children.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I mean iPad, yeah, yeah, iPad or something similar.
Speaker 1:Sure, right Now, talking about the nonverbal, there are also those because of the autism they can't read or write. Those because of the autism, they can't read or write. And I've talked with a lady and her son. Their story was just so very good because he was able to do art, yeah, and he turned himself into a great artist. And they've, they're building the business and it's really starting to flourish now that's right.
Speaker 2:well, you are. You see, the art is something. You can turn art into a career. And there's some that are super mathematicians and just in the last few months I heard four horror stories about elementary school children super good at math and they were not allowed to be moved ahead and they turned to gigantic behavior problems. Forcing them to do baby math Might have an eight-year-old child that needs to do high school or college math. Well, I just see the algebra book on the kid's desk and you just let them work on it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Let's talk about meltdowns and tantrums. So many people do not understand the difference. Can you explain to them what the difference is with an autistic person having a meltdown rather than just a neurotypical person having a tantrum?
Speaker 2:Well, meltdown is total sensory overload. Okay. More likely to happen in a busy Walmart might happen in a football game, someplace where there's a lot of sensory. Now the thing is, once you have a meltdown, it takes 20 minutes to calm down when it stops. Okay.
Speaker 2:And so you need to just put them someplace where they can calm down for 20 minutes. And then mother would say you know the rule no television tonight. She didn't scream at me, I'm going to take the TV away, I was all nice and calm. And then she'd say you know the rule no television tonight. Okay. She would just say it to me. Really nice and calm.
Speaker 1:That's good. I think that's one big thing that people have to learn, because when they're out there and see it they don't understand it. So the more that we can put out there so that people can understand the differences, then when they come into a situation like that they might handle it a little different and it'll just make it that much easier for everybody to move forward.
Speaker 2:You also need to figure out. Okay, let's troubleshoot that Again. I have a list of things for that. The first thing is frustration, because they cannot communicate. Okay.
Speaker 2:Do they have a way to communicate? The other big thing I just talked to a parent this morning and partially verbal child with 10 years old, all kinds of stomach pain, okay, and that's something where you need to treat that Hit painful medical. Another one was hit. An adult was hitting people and he had he's having pain, you know, maybe it's a toothache, an earache and the doctor was just telling the family of this 10-year-old, well, he's just autistic, wow. Well, he was having all kinds of horrible gastrointestinal symptoms that were not being treated. Wow.
Speaker 2:So hidden painful medical frustration because they can't communicate. And the other Wow, okay, now the other thing on sensory. A child will often tolerate a noise like a vacuum cleaner if they turn it on and off. Okay. I've seen vacuum cleaners go from the most feared thing to favorite playthings, when the child could control the noise. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Very, very simple thing you could do. The other problem I'm running into is kids that wear headphones all the time. The sound sensitivity worsens Really, what you want to do is have them with you all the time. Put them on when you go in those horrible bathrooms that have all those horrible hand drivers. Dyson blade that's the worst one. That would be a place where you put on the headphone, Sure, but other places take it off, but have it with you. You see, that's control. Always have it with you, but don't wear a molotov.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. That's great information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just real simple things like this help on the sensor. You said control is just so important. I was in a hotel just a month ago. Fire alarm went off three times. Okay, that's a place you put that phone on.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes sense. So you've done so many things in your life. I guess the next question is what's next for you?
Speaker 2:Well, I think right now, I mean I'll be 77 this summer. As long as the people is going around talking to people. Okay. And I had a great time talking to people in rural Illinois. I've just given them straightforward information, like some of the stuff I've just told you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:There weren't things I want out of the little kids program about the sound sensitivity. You know simple stuff they can do.
Speaker 1:Right, that all makes sense. This conversation that we've had last week and, of course, what we're having now, has just been so great. You've given so much information. It's been truly an honor to have you here and talking about this, because you've given so much of your life story and things that can help others. It's just totally amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, it's been really, really great. And I just take a very practical approach. I'm a visual thinker, right? So I see the algebra book on the fourth grader's desk. I see the headphone in the backpack. Right. The worst hand dryer is a Dyson blade. Oh, somebody uses that. I can't wait to get out of that bathroom.
Speaker 1:I can understand that.
Speaker 2:It's the noisiest hand dryer there is. When someone puts their hand in it, it makes a horrible noise.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 2:And yeah, you wear the headphones for that. That thing's truly awful.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:But you see, as I talk about it, I'm seeing it, I'm seeing the thing, the gray and yellow thing, so we've covered a lot of things.
Speaker 1:How about the little kids?
Speaker 2:Well, I want to help these kids that are different. The problem is, once the kids get older, when little kids are really little they can look really horrible. You can't judge a kid on how bad he looks as a three-year-old Right. One thing that I did not have was epilepsy. Okay. That tends to make things better. So you can't tell with the little ones, but I got into very good early education at two and a half. Okay.
Speaker 2:I was horrified to find out they were age five and before they got into any therapy. That's terrible. You know they're going to have to do something with the local grandmothers. Her wait list is not acceptable for a three-year-old.
Speaker 1:Yes, I totally agree. One of the biggest things that I hear from all the parents is the schooling issues. That seems to be quite a problem at times. Now, one of the things that I have heard lately is that a lot of autistic people also are ADHD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, adhd and autism have a lot of crossover, okay. A lot of the symptoms crossover, about half of them, 30% of the symptoms crossover. And the other thing is, when the kids grow up, now you're going to get the fully verbal ones- Okay.
Speaker 2:Then you have the kids that they used to call Asperger's Right no speech delay socially awkward. I had speech delay at age four. Then you have the ones that are partially verbal and then you have the total non-speaking and some of those can learn to type independently and that needs to be encouraged yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now, just because someone's non-speaking, people tend to think they don't have any intelligence, which is not true. So I understand that there's a lot of things that can be said about the autistic people that are non-speaking and how they can contribute to the world well, let me just take uh talk about some of the books that are written by non-speaking. Okay.
Speaker 2:Tito Makapadahe how Can I Talk If my Lips Don't Move? He talks about sensory scrambling. He talks about not being able to hold movements. Then there's Carly's Voice. Then another one is Reason I Jump by Noki, a Japanese boy, and there's a sequel to the Reason I Jump. That's a better book. He's older, a lot more insight. Get the sequel to the Reason I Jump and those are books where if you have a kid that's above age seven, that doesn't speak, those books are must-reads and those people type completely independently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such great information. So what do you tell people that are still learning? They're just trying to figure out what they want to do, where they're headed, how they can control their lives. What do you tell people like that?
Speaker 2:This would be people on the spectrum.
Speaker 1:Yes. So what do you tell them so that they can look at themselves, evaluate and continue to evolve into where they want to go?
Speaker 2:Well, I've had parents tell me when they finally did get their kid a job like maybe an office supply store. He blossomed, he bloomed, he became an adult. Okay. And I want to avoid the multitasking chaos at the takeout window. Sure. Well, if they do fast food, let's find quieter shifts to be on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:The thing is an autistic individual always keeps learning. The thing is an autistic individual always keeps learning and the more you fill up the database, it's sort of like training artificial intelligence. It's bottom-up thinking. Okay, To make ChatGPT work, they have to load a lot of data into it. Sure, so the more place where the autistic person gets out and does things, the more data goes into the database.
Speaker 1:That makes perfect sense. You know they're sitting home playing video games and they're not becoming video game designers. They'll becoming video game designers. I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about it. Yeah, that just makes so much common sense. So I had a guy that got married. He was autistic, she wasn't, and they had a very great way of looking at it. They looked at it as a culture difference and they learned each other's culture and thrived.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, that's a good way to treat it, because teaching social skills is like training somebody in a foreign country, and I think another thing that helped those grandfathers and grandmothers that come up to me all the time at meetings is social skills in my generation were taught in a much more structured way Okay. We're taught to shake hands, but when you're teaching an autistic person just the most basic social skills, it's like training somebody how to behave in a foreign country.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Everything has to be explained.
Speaker 1:That's such a great point, and I'm so glad you brought that up, because I just spoke with a person that's going to be on my podcast later on. She actually moved to Spain because the culture was just so different and what she called the noise didn't bother her as much because she didn't understand it. So I think that's a great point.
Speaker 2:Well, and I've heard you know, there's been quite a few autistic people that have liked going to foreign countries Because they don't expect you to. You're not going to be fast and fluent in their culture. Right. And if you make a mistake they say, well, it's just because you just don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They. They say, well, it's just because you just don't know, yeah, what the rules are. We've got to get these kids out doing things. I'm just appalled. I talk to moms that do everything for their kid, never gone in their store and just bought something where they had to talk to the store staff.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You're talking 14, 15 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's truly overprotection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not, and you, yeah, that's truly overprotection. Yeah, and I'm not, and you do it with baby steps. The other thing is learning to drive. If I hadn't learned to drive, there would have been no cattle industry. It's going to take a whole lot longer and thank goodness, on my aunt's ranch, the mailbox was three miles away on a dirt road. That gave lots of practice. The horse pasture is where I learned how to use a manual shift lurching all around. So you need to start in an open parking lot with no poles. Find one with no poles on it. Sure.
Speaker 2:If it lurches 50 feet, it doesn't matter. You're doing it 7 o'clock in the morning and nobody's there. Right, that's where you start and it's going to take much longer to get the operation of the car into motor memory. You need to take a lot more time in a very safe place before you do traffic, because if I hadn't learned to drive and a lot of them are not learning to drive driver's ed shoves them into it way too quickly I want to do all this practice, where we even do driver's ed, in the totally safe place, middle of an open field.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I started middle of the horse pasture. I did not try to work the shift next to my aunt's light blue patio gate because I probably would have gone through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's possible.
Speaker 2:And, as a visual thinker, I see the gate. Sure, no, and somebody made a mistake of having them start in a parking space and they drove the car over a curb and severely damaged the underside of the car. No, it's open field, middle of a gigantic parking lot, and nobody's there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's where you start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I talked with one gentleman and he said it was the scariest thing that ever happened to him when his son decided that he wanted to learn how to drive. He said he couldn't hold him back. So he trained him, worked with him and it took him a while to get it, probably a year, but eventually he did get that license.
Speaker 2:But he got it and then very gradually we did some traffic Very gradually. It's going to take longer. Lots of practice in a completely safe place, and if you have access to golf carts or something like that, then I would start with that, if you have access to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 2:And again, I want the golf cart out in the middle of an open field where it's not going to hit anything.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That makes truly common sense. So you mentioned that if you hadn't have learned how to drive, the cattle, industry might not have happened. Can you elaborate on that?
Speaker 2:Because I wouldn't have been able to get to the places. Oh, okay. The cattle places in rural areas. There's no public transportation. There's no way it could have gotten to the cattle feed yards and the ranches.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes perfect sense. We're talking out in the country.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, as soon as you get away from public transportation, it'd be totally limited. There would have been no way we could have done cattle industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:And when I was livestock editor for the local farm magazine, I had to drive to all these things. Okay. Like the Arizona Cattle Feeders Field Day at the University of Arizona.
Speaker 1:Okay, there was no public transportation to go to that. Yeah, people forget. A lot of that is in the country.
Speaker 2:Had to drive there and that scene where I get the card is a very important scene. Okay. Because getting that job really opened up the cattle industry to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. That is one thing that we have to point them to is to see your HBO movie about your life and how you evolved to where you are today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, and there's things. Yeah, there's some stuff they embellished, sure, like wild horse. It was kind of crazy, but I did put bull testicles on my vehicle. That did happen. Okay, and there was a scene in there where the boss slammed down the deodorant and said you stink, use it. That happened. This is one thing autistic people have got to clean up the hygiene. Okay.
Speaker 2:That is something you just have to do, and I didn't like the gunky roll-ons I had in the 70s. But now you just get a solid, no-sense stick. You don't even feel it once you get it on.
Speaker 1:Right exactly Now, you brought something up that I think we need to address a little bit, and that's you said you didn't feel it. So a lot of people have a texture issue. Did you have any issues with textures of certain things?
Speaker 2:Well, I can't stand scratchy clothes against my skin, so I have to find pants that don't itch. I can wear t-shirts under shirts. Okay. But pants. I have to go shopping for pants and then I have to sometimes wash them three times before they're wearable. Okay. Especially if I have to sit for a long time, then they itch.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You got to find stuff that doesn't itch.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And you need to let kids have some choices at close. And then anything that goes against the skin wash it first.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about food textures? Did that bother you?
Speaker 2:I just hate slimy.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so raw egg white, that was like vomit. I think it's okay for a child to have a few things they hate. Okay, raw egg white, okra, boiled okra, oysters yeah, I agree. So I have a real thing with slimy. But I'm concerned some of these kids, where maybe they just eat McNuggets and ice cream or something crazy like that, because there was an adult that came down with scurvy, the old fashioned vitamin deficiency diseases Wow, doctors don't know how to diagnose them anymore. And so if a child's on a very limited diet, give them a multiple vitamin, right, I want to make sure they don't know how to diagnose them anymore. And so if a child's on a very limited diet give them a multiple vitamin, right, I want to make sure they don't get scurvy, they don't get very, very. The vitamin B deficiency diseases are real nasty.
Speaker 1:Yes, you don't want to get those Right.
Speaker 2:Taking a multiple vitamin just eliminates that problem.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:And then maybe some not getting enough protein. That's that that can be a real concern.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I've spoken with many parents that say their kids will eat five or six different items and that's all they can get them to eat.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that can be a very big concern for sure well then, the other thing to help them on that would get them involved in food preparation okay you can play with the kitchen. We don't. We have to have manners in the dining room but in the kitchen. We, with food, get them involved in food prep. That sometimes helps, sure, and then have a few. Okay, raw egg, white oysters and okra, those three slimers. I don't have to eat those, but you can't have where you hardly eat anything.
Speaker 1:Right, because that's a huge issue and that's nutrition for the kids. Oh, I know Nutrition is a huge issue because if we don't eat right, then it affects how our body grows and how we develop, so that's a very big issue for all kids growing up.
Speaker 2:Well, exactly, that can be a very big concern.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And we want to broaden the palate. And this kid, who was a young adult, had a vitamin C deficiency. Wow, his ankles were swollen and stuff. The doctor said, well, it's just because he's autistic. And the tendency for doctors to just say, well, they have these symptoms because they're autistic. Wow, well, they gave him some vitamin C and got him on a multiple and it cleared right up. No, it was Harvey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely a big issue is getting the medical field on board, because even though they've grown and understand more, there's still a lot of places where they need to expand and learn.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're not. I just talked to a mom this morning, a 10-year-old. They're on Medicaid and the doctors are just blowing her off on saying, well, she's because he's autistic and he's got gastrointestinal issues that ought to be treated. He's got rheumatoid arthritis that needs to be treated. Wow, and they're telling him it's just autism. That was today I talked to her. Wow, that's disgusting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Because the medical field has to really grow so they understand more about autism. Because we've come a long ways in the last 20 years. We still got a long ways to go and the medical field has to get on board so that they can understand more, because I think that's the biggest thing is autistic understanding.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is they talk about well, we better have autism acceptance. I tend to look at it much more targeted. Like I worked with my cattle handling, I didn't just say, well, people just treat cattle terrible. I've worked on cattle handling. That's something specific, sure, and I try to give some very specific recommendations, like the pilot's checklist. That would help so many things. I have no working memory. I need external working memory. Okay.
Speaker 2:Things very specific that they can do, like the four important things for the early education. What are the outcomes? I want three-year-olds, I want speech, I want turn-taking and I want skills, and the kids should love going to therapy and get progress.
Speaker 1:Right. So what kind of therapies do you think are the best for these autistic children?
Speaker 2:Well, there's all this arguments about ABA and stuff. With a good ABA there's terrible ABA. Okay, I don't like the fact that private equity companies have been buying up autism clinics. I don't like that. I didn't like finding out that Boeing had sold one of their big factories to private equity. Sure, and that's why we have loose rudder bolts and we had a door that came off Right, and that's why we have loose rudder bolts and we had a door that came off Right.
Speaker 2:It gets down to having the right teacher. I don't care what the name of the therapy is, but we got a three-year-old that's nonverbal and lots of stims and stuff. You get a teacher that has the knack I know this isn't very scientific the knack to work for these kids Right. With these three-year-olds you don't. And then there was some old ABA stuff where they just drove them into sensory overload, forcing way too much eye contact. Okay.
Speaker 2:I had no emphasis on eye contact. You see, that tends to cause sensory overload. Okay. And we get away from all this grabbing of the chin and stuff like that. The thing I asked parents of a three-year-old when they're in a therapy one day of speech, one hour of speech, is not enough therapy. Right, it's enough to use that therapist as a coach to help volunteers work for the kid, but that's not enough therapy. Sure, three-year-old is not talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very big thing. I spoke with an ABA therapist that he used comedy to help his kids and it worked. He said he saw really good results from what he did.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the good teacher. So I'm not so concerned about the name of the therapy. What I'm concerned is is this kid getting enough hours a week working with an effective teacher? Sure, I want speech, I want turn-taking and I want skills, and the kid should have fun going.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 2:It's that simple.
Speaker 1:It is because if you have fun, then you look forward to going to it.
Speaker 2:And then some are slower than others. And then I talked to one mom where with one teacher is making progress and the other teacher was forcing them into sensory overload. Okay. And I don't think, realized that they were.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's great information and really it just comes back to what we was talking about before and that's just using good common sense.
Speaker 2:Well, I think common sense is visual thinking, because my book Visual Thinking I talked about disasters. Okay.
Speaker 2:Like Fukushima, burned up because the mathematicians that did a perfect job of making an earthquake did not see the water coming in over the seawall during the tsunami, flooding the basement basement and drowning the electrical emergency cooling pump right all I need to know about that reactor. If that pump doesn't run when I need it, we're in so much trouble. We're not. It's not funny, right? That's what happened. They didn't see it. You see, that's common sense yes, I agree.
Speaker 2:And we're forcing these kids doing all this algebra and stuff like that, you're going to have all the common sense. People that are doing nothing can't graduate from school. But I see something for a solution to a problem, right, I'm saying, okay, putting the headphones on, we go in there's that horrible hand dryer, the bathroom. You put the headphone on and then when you come out you stuff it in your backpack.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:You see, I can see that.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I've spoken with people that have great visual thinking. They can see it, and then I've talked with others that they don't see it as well. And that's just the beauty of life, I guess, because that's the difference between two people and how they operate within the world.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, and that's why I did my books the Autistic Brain and Visual Thinking, where I talk about how the brains are different. The autistic brain and visual thinking, where I talk about how the brains are different. Okay, and then the anxiety issue, addressing my old book, thinking in pictures okay and then I've got a book for parents on newly diagnosed three-year-old son.
Speaker 2:It's called autism and education. The way I see it's a little gray and white book and it's a little small book so the parent isn't just overloaded. They read this little small book and get tips on it.
Speaker 1:Okay, now, in closing, what would you like to tell some of my listeners, because I have some that are autistic, some that are raising autistic children, some that have learned later in life. Some don't even know what autism is and they're still learning. So what would you like to tell them so that they can hopefully better understand autism?
Speaker 2:Well, a brain can be more social-emotional, or a brain can be more cognitive, and some of this, like with a mild type, especially with no speech delay, it's just personality variant. Okay.
Speaker 2:At what point do you slap a label on it? Because you're going from Einstein, who had no speech delay, to Sri, who would definitely be in an autism class today. There's somebody with very severe problems maybe has very severe epilepsy, got a whole bunch of neurological problems on top of the autism. So you're putting this name on this huge spectrum. But when the children are little, they look very much the same.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:They look very much the same. So you get them into good early intervention. Some will learn to speak, others won't. Some can learn to type independently, Right, and then they kind of split off into different levels later on. But the little ones you know, like two to five, you need to just get working with them right away. I want them in therapy by two, if I can.
Speaker 1:Sure, that way they get to learn the base and then, as they grow, they expand and evolve.
Speaker 2:Well, that's right, and I was lucky to get in very good therapy and it was just two teachers just worked out of their home. Okay. Six kids in the class. There were a couple of Down syndrome kids and kids. Back then they didn't know what autism was in 49. So they just called them brain damaged or mentally retarded. The Down syndromes would have been not diagnosed Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think I read where autism was first diagnosed in like 1910. And at that point the doctors didn't know anything about it, so they just put it as psychosis and psychotic.
Speaker 2:Well, you see, this is the thing. You see, a psychosis. You hallucinate, autistic hallucinating. See, my visual thinking is not hallucinations, right Okay, now if I thought a lion was going to jump out of this computer right now, well, that's a hallucination, right or illusion. Or I think that the um, you know, the satellites, are controlling my behavior, or something like that.
Speaker 1:sure delusion, common kind of schizophrenic delusion, is something external that to them is controlling right and now it tends to be electronic stuff so my understanding is that the doctors and people didn't really start understanding what autism is until probably the early 2000s, and then we've developed it over the last 20 or so years well, basically in the 80s they to be autistic.
Speaker 2:You had to have speech delay okay then in the early 90, the Asperger's came in no speech, delay, socially awkward. Then in 2013, they just gobbled it all together.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Now you've got one big spectrum, but then when the kids are older they need very different things. You've got a little math kid that needs an algebra book in fourth grade. You've got someone like me that ought to be working on mechanical stuff and have their art ability expanded. You've got another kid that needs to be taught computer programming and then you've got somewhere where you're going to have to just work on teaching basic skills and then you have some of these can type independently. That actually got a good brain inside of them to introduce typing independently.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that definitely makes sense. There's one thing that I'd like to ask you about the movie that I'd like to clarify. Okay, there was one part where there was a guy there that I think he just didn't like you or thought you was nuts, yeah, and then the other one was when you actually got into the pathway that the cows followed and you got in there and followed it yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did that. I got down in the chutes to see what cattle were seeing. Okay. Being a visual thinker is an obvious thing to do. I didn't know verbal thinking existed until I was in my late 30s. Okay. So many of things can be verbal. But think that was crazy to get in a cattle shoot. But I noticed they'd stop at shadows. They'd stop at a cone on the fence. There's a rope hanging across the fence that would make them stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought that was a very interesting part of that movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that showed that accurately.
Speaker 1:What about the other guy? He was kind of a doubter and didn't believe in what you was doing. Was that pretty true to life?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, there was a lot of doubters and then one of the things that helped me get credibility is I wrote good articles for the Farmer Rancher magazine. That helped get me credibility. And then I got my projects out there and then I wrote articles on how to build things. I just wrote really straightforward articles on how to handle cattle and how to build stuff and put the drawings out there. I didn't talk about a lot of theory, I had a lot of just practical stuff in my articles and when I covered the cattle feeders meeting I summarized those speeches accurately. I got respect for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's just so awesome. You've done so much and helped so many people out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just so awesome. You've done so much and helped so many people out and I just got to say it's been a pleasure having you on here Tremendous conversation, so I really appreciate everything that you've done and coming here and talking with me. If have a website, templegrandincom is my autism website and grandincom just my last name is my livestock website.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great to know and I hope a lot of people will go to your website and find out more about you if they don't know. And again, thanks for coming on. It's just been my honor to have you. Thanks for coming on. It's just been my honor to have you. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me, the World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.